Limited Resources 267 – Fate Reforged Set Review: Common and Uncommon

This week on Limited Resources Marshall and Luis cover every single common and uncommon from Fate Reforged! Get ready for your prerelease, release, and subsequent Limited events with the Limited Resources Set Review! Hidden gems, trap cards, pitfalls, and must-picks are all covered in this episode.

Timestamps:

White: 8:43

Blue:  1:05:20

Black: 2:02:30

Red: 2:59:30

Green: 3:53:50

Multicolored/Artifact/Land: 4:43:00

 

Limited Resources is brought to you by ChannelFireball.

You can support Limited Resources on the LR Patreon page here: http://www.patreon.com/limitedresources 

Your Hosts: Marshall Sutcliffe and Luis Scott-Vargas

Marshall’s Twitter: http://twitter.com/Marshall_LR

LSV’s Twitter: http://twitter.com/lsv

Email: lr@lrcast.com

LR Community Subreddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/lrcast/

Music by Man Bites Dog and Josh Woodward

Contact Marshall_LR on Magic Online if you’d like to join the Limited Resources clan.

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53 thoughts on “Limited Resources 267 – Fate Reforged Set Review: Common and Uncommon

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  1. Guys, I think your take on limited is great and really appreciate your dedication to the industry…BUT 5 hour podcast?! I’ve stopped listening to LR in the past due to length, and I have returned to find its gotten a bit worse. Its great content, so try to find a way to make it more compact and digestable

    • No, don’t listen to this madman! 🙂

      Sorry Scott, I understand what you’re saying but you just cannot find this detailed a discussion of the new cards anywhere else! It’s an invaluable resource coming up to pre-release weekend!

      Keep up the good work Marshall and LSV!!

      • Guys I don’t mean to speak such blasphemy! I agree the indepth discussion is good and im realizing people WANT this long drawn out marathon so that’s fine. I just know it doesn’t work for me when i need something to listen at work or on my way home – I just don’t have 5 hours to listen to droning. Do you guys like radiolab? Listen to radiolab.

        • It’s hardly accurate to characterize an in depth set review as droning. If you don’t like it, don’t listen. I would consider a longer podcast a bonus because it’s something to listen to for more than one day of commuting. As for the rest of us value fiends, we will continue to support and encourage long shows where needed.

        • It’s pretty easy to break this up in to easy-to-manage sections. Each color is an hour or so. Listen to a color, then go do something else. That’s what I did, and I really enjoyed their set review. It was quite informative.

    • Scoot,

      You do realize this is a special episode that only happens when a new set releases right? Most episodes are 90 minutes or less.

    • Yeah, wouldn’t it be convenient if they could just condense a full set review into a 30-minute podcast for you to listen to on your drive home from work so they can cater exactly to your incredibly important, busy life?

      Get your head out of your ass.

  2. Agreed! I look forward to the marathon set reviews! Normal episodes are 1-2 hours, but when it’s set review time I expect ~4-6 hours for the common uncommon review. I think if you want the more compact, you can find the excel sheet that has all the grades, but, as Marshall has mentioned in the past, just looking at the grades could overlook the situations when that card matters.

    Plus, I’m always hunting for magical LSV magical storytime.

    In conclusion, thanks LSV for marathon number one and Marshall for marathon number… ?

  3. Most people have mentioned this but wanted to +1 the keep up the long reviews. Listened to the whole thing and you guys had some interesting opinions. People keep mentioning “don’t play aura’s you’ll get 2-for-1’ed” but I’m a big fan of them, something about making a 7/7 flying rhino seems like it’s going to win me the game more often then they will pull their 1 unconditional removal spell. Hey and if they blow that removal that’s why I go sultai, bring it back :).

    • Hey Will, the “form” cycle, especially Lightform and Mistform, which are both auras, got fairly good grades from Marshall and LSV. The trouble with auras is getting 2 for 1’ed, so you have be careful when you deploy them. Magic is all about resource management, which is especially true for limited; if an opponent uses 1 card two deal with 2 of yours they will be ahead. If it happens again it will be hard to come back and win. It is tempting to think only of the upside when playing a card. If you get blown out by your opponent when playing an aura, is it realistic to expect that slowly reanimating that creature will help you win? It sounds a little BCSM to me. If the aim of the game is to do something cool that’s one thing (Timmy), but if you want to win (Spike), consistency usually trumps unnecessary risks.

      Another thing, the removal doesn’t even need to be unconditional to punish playing auras. Throttle, Wild Slash, Bring Low, Force Away, Whisk Away come to mind. Even sorcery speed removal like suspension field and Rite of the Serpent 2 for 1 auras. In summary, one can play auras, but be aware of the risks, don’t play bad ones, look for better options where available and don’t get 2 for 1’ed.

      • Hey George,

        The forms dont realy count as normal auras. you are not going to put this on another card you have already played from your hand. these auras put a new creature on the battlefield. so if that creature gets destroyed it doesnt count as a 2 for 1 because it was their removal and your aura. the creature was free.

        • Thanks for pointing that out Ranan. I am aware that the forms are not like normal auras; I did not mean to imply that one could get 2 for 1ed just for playing them. I meant to address Will’s sweeping generalization that one should not play auras. Also I misnamed the blue “form” it’s called Cloudform. I guess I was thinking of something with every creature type.

  4. There isn’t a transcription of these anywhere is there? I would so read one of those (and there’s some decent software out there, it’s not like you have to draft it by hand these days)

  5. I don’t think that Smoldering Efreet and Channel Harm interact in the way LSV was implying because it is only redirects damage from sources that you don’t control. Although sometimes I can’t tell when LSV is just trolling, so there’s that too.

  6. I disagree with the analysis of Marang River Prowler entirely. In the podcast you both agree that it seems better in more aggressive Jeskai or Temur decks, but I believe it fits perfectly with what Sultai is trying to do: Gain incremental card advantage throughout a long drawn-out game, sit behind high toughness creatures like Archers’ Parapet, and win by swinging with an evasive threat turn after turn.

  7. I’m very surprised that Marshall was so down on Whisperer of the Wilds after singing praises of Elvish Mystic, Golden Hind, and Voyaging Satyr in recent sets.

    • Those other cards are better because they provide the board with a body or better utility. A 2/1 for 2 trades with quite a lot, while untapping any land lets you ramp up any color. You likely wont reach ferocious for a bit after 2 mana, and before then it ramps from 3 to 4 the turn after it lands, something that isn’t very important when turn three is going to likely be a 3-mana 2/2, and it doesn’t compare favorably the morphs and everything else running around. A 0/2 only holds off creatures that shouldn’t be attacking in the first place.

  8. Hey guys!

    Love the cast. great insights. Do you have an excel file with all the ratings you gave on the cards? I remember there being one last time. it helps a lot to have a print out to bring to the prerelease. helps me decide what my last few cards in my deck will be. Again, thanks for the great content!

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  9. Great stuff as always! Since M13 I’ve been listening to these, and they have helped me improve my limited skills immensely! Thanks and please keep up the great work!

    For those who find these podcasts too long, I suggest doing what I do. Find yourself some audio editing software (this is really easy to find, there are many free MP3 splitters out there, search Google), and using the handy timestamps given in the description, split the podcast into one for each colour. Smaller, easier to digest podcasts, and if you lose your place it’s a lot easier to find where you were.

  10. Podcast review was great as always, except I was hoping for more puns from LSV. Maybe try harder next time. 😉

    Two thoughts I had during the podcast:

    1. Fruit of the First Tree can also be cast on your opponent’s creatures and you’re the one who draws cards. This seems like it might make it slightly better, if not much.

    2. Pilgrim of the Fates wins creature combat against practically every other creature in the format. If it ever gets out, your opponent will need to have removal to deal with it. And KTK seems to routinely get to 7 mana or so (though Fate Reforged looks like it might be a little faster). I feel like it’s probably better than it appears.

    • How nice to read! And you’re totally ri2ih…&#8g30;…..tf you think of something we could tweak I really WOULD love to hear it.Stay tuned, Jaime. As promised, you’ll be reading your name soon because I am SO in love with the titles in your office. A future blog coming your way!

  11. I think you guys were way too harsh on Break Through the Line. Sure, it’s an enchantment that doesn’t do anything by itself, but the same can be said about other build-around-me uncommons, like Secret Plans or Goblinslide. All you have to do to make it work is play morphs, and if you do, you can deal 2-4 points of unblockable damage every turn (you can activate it every turn after you cast them, after all). Moreover, if I’m not mistaken, the creature stays unblockable if you flip it, so if you get to the point where you get enough mana to both make your Glacial Stalker unblockable AND flip it, you can close the lid on the game very quickly. LSV did say not to underestimate 2-power unblockables, and this thing can give you as many of those as you want.

    Yeah, sure, I wouldn’t just put it in every single deck I draft, but putting it in the same grade as Molting Snakeskin is just silly.

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  12. Pingback: » Fate Reforged Limited Set Review – Gold and Colorless

  13. Fascination. I thought that card just said target player. Good thing I listened to the podcast before I went to the prerelease. What even is that card.

  14. Interesting interaction with rite of undoing – you can target your lightform or cloudform and leave the morph on the ground. It’s kind of like you net a 2/2. Kind of corner case, but I’d much rather keep my lightform than return a manifested land to my hand when it’s targeted with removal. I have a feeling people will read rite of undoing as bounce a creature, not a non land permanent.

  15. Pingback: » Fate Reforged Constructed Review – White

  16. Pingback: » Fate Reforged Constructed Review – Blue

  17. Taigem’s scheming is a D. it is playable in sultai when you want do delve into turn 3 mandrils. (these are in order of you mentioning cards)also manifest makes it much better.

    Aven skirmisher needed prowess.
    Channel harm is a F no doubt. too much inconsistant.
    If you are playing Jeskai barricade to recover manifest, you probably should not be playing manifest.
    Mardu woe-reaper is meant to hurt delve and I would give it a high c to a low b.
    Soul summons: manifest in itself is a horrible ability. you lose more than you will ever gain.
    Valorous stance is an easy A. it does so much.
    Cloudform, if you are running canyon lurkers you deserve to lose, because lurkers are unplayable.
    Frost walker: a 4/1 does not pass the test, 4/1 trades too easy.
    Jeskai sage:(limited is 17 lands) sage is a decent C. prowess is good most of the time.
    Lotus path djinn: is a C. 4 mana for a 2/3 is bad. it is playable but not allot.
    Marang river prowler: (lsv no one should Ever cast scout the borders.) he is a D mainly because it does nothing.
    Mindscour dragon: milling yourself is probably the worst use of this card. no deck should have allot of delve. Most people understand delve and only run 1-4 delve cards so milling them 4 cards you may hit more of the cards then you fuel.
    Reality shift: Easy A. Best card with manifest. There is no downfall here. If you are using this wrong it’s your own fault.
    Rite of undoing: this is not peel of reality. at 5 mana this effect is way too slow. delving this makes it better but there goes one of your delve card slots. This is NOT murderous cut. using this to get back cloud or lightform is a bad idea once again. lightform is playable but you do not want a ton of them. at best I think rite should be graded at a low C.
    Sultai skullkeeper: wetland sandbar is much better!. and thats sad. easy F.
    Whisk away:easy B+ to A. attacking and blocking creatures are the ones you want to bounce to the library.
    Will of the naya seems good both ways. giving this delve actually makes it playable. this would be rated at C-. but its an ok C- you should not mind running this.
    Write into being: the last playable manifest card. the chances of this being a creature are very good. so the upside is much better than the other manifested cards.even if you miss, your opponent does not know it. B- to high C.
    Dark deal: I have to agree. F never ever deck this. you auto lose.
    Fearsome awakening: seems bad but I can see this in delve decks, they can just toss the bigger dragons and get some vaule. its D playable.
    Gurmag Angler: horrible. being a 5/5 does not make up for 7 mana. thats 7 mana. Delve makes this playable but even then its not as happy. i rather have mandrills or scavenger. if it were pack 3 he would be better. but at pack 1 he does not get picked high. C at best.
    orc Surshot: 4 mana is late for creatures. most of the time this will only poke things. those times where it goes bonkers it will be a much high B to A area. Low B is where I would start though.
    Qarsi high priest: even with act of treason this is bad. You sac a creature to lose a card. this seems Very bad. this is a F easy. it may be a high F but thats still an F. you mentioned being down a card but in reality you are down 2 cards. the card you spent in this and the card you just lost in manifest.
    Sibsig Muckdraggers: this is WAY too high. 9 mana for a 3/6 is terrible delving this to get your best guy is still bad seeing as it goes to hand. if it went to battlefield it would be D range. the creature going to hand makes this a straight F.
    Sultai emissary does not replace it self. it actually puts you further behind. you have to spend a card for a 1/1 and then you have to just lose the top card. I cannot see this being good ever. There will be those 1 time happenings when it gets there, but more often than not it will fail. D- at best.
    Tasigur’s Cruelty:this is much better than secrets. and this is still not good. Secrets is not playable and this is also never playable. easy F.
    Bloodfire Enforcers: once again 17 lands. this will hardly ever be active and when its not active this card will be a utter failure. when it is active it will be balanced. so I would have to give it a D- with a possible to be a C. When this fails though it fails hard.
    Break through the Line: this goes in the Temur morph deck. thats where you draft this. sadly its pack 1 and you have no idea of that deck is you. So this gets an F.
    Collateral Damage: you should never high pick this. you should wheel it and take it grudgly but then in packs 2 and 3 Act of treason becomes much better. at best this is a C-.
    Dragonrage: (this will get me allot of hate) this is a worse trumpet blast, I never thought I could say that. seeing as trumpet blast is in my eyes the absolute worst card in KTK. mainly because peolpe think trumpet blast is playable but in reality its not. solid F.
    Fierce invocation: the manifest cards are all bad and I did say that only 3 are playable, I could not fault anyone for running him. I personally cannot run this but hey if you can, thats you. D- at best.
    Gore swine: no good. a 4/1 is horrible it dies to everything. the deck that wants this is temur and they have the grizzly who is leagues better. this is a D- at best.
    Humble defector: is reasonable. solid C. the tricks make it better. without tricks a 2 mana 2/1 is still fine.
    Hungering Yeti: is only good at a surprise blocker, if its not jumping in play it fails hard. so if you hae the ability to give him flash he is a Strong C but when he does not have flash he is a D-.
    Pyrotechnics: not an A. maybe a B+ mainly because arc lightning is better. this is still very playable. when you consider arc lightning this becomes bad. I am not knocking on this. I would not run the 2nd of this where as I would run 2-3 arcs no problem.
    Smoldering efreet: not playable even if you Really want 2 drops. F no other grade fits.
    Wild Slash: I am only noting this to LSV, trying to win is an auto counter to channel harm. this is probably the easist A.
    Red as a color looks worse than it was in KTK.
    Abzan Beastmaster: if this never triggers, why is it in your deck???? Solid B+.
    Ainok Guide: the part that makes this good is the same part that makes it bad. you put a land on top for manifest, but guess what your opponent knows that also. solid F+.
    Ambush Krotiq: this is not bad. It is much better than it looks. bouncing a etb creature is huge but mostly a 5/5 trample is fine in this set. i think this rounds out to a C-.
    Arashin War Beast: Fail fail fail, I cannot say fail enough. I would have to grade this at a Z.
    Battlefront Krushok: 5 mana for a 3/4 is bad very bad, the ability does make up for it. you make all your outlasted guys or guys with counters now cannot be double, or triple team.C+ area manly because it boost your other guys.
    Formless nurturing: It’s actually 20% of the time you manifested a creature, then its also even less of that the creature being anything over a 3/3. I could never run this but I cannot knock others for running it.
    Hunt the weak: I think it looks better here than it did before. It is still just as good as it was before. Solid B-.
    Map the Wastes: I do not want to support is but I can see myself running out a jeskai student out on turn 2 and then playing this and swinging with a 3/4 is fine. so ill grade it at D.
    Ruthless instincts: this is an abzan card easy. turn 1 disowned, t2 outlast, t3 you now have this option. In that set up this is good, other set ups no thx. D-.
    Sudden Reclamation: who would have though scout the borders could be worse? this is worse. Scout is unplayable, this is worse. Not a Z but not an F so maybe a G? maybe the name is best you suddenly realize you just lost.
    Temur sabertooth: I have to say that summit prowler did no work it was just bad. this card though is a B+ for all things that LSV noted.
    Winds of Qai Sisma: this is not a fog. playing this as fog is bad. when you have the ferocious is when you play this. This now becomes a huge combat trick! as a fog I grade it at F. As huge combat of doom, This becomes a B- to a B+.
    Cunning strike: 5 mana for 2 dmg is not enough. this is very bad prowess trigger. C-.
    Etheral Ambush: probably one of the worst manifest cards as you get 2 at once. never be happy to even see this card in a pack. you should Never want to cast this. so much downside. D-.
    Grim contest: no reason why you should not be playing archer’s parapet, lsv makes it sound so bad. This is a solid C.
    War flare: this is much better than trumpet blast, this is what you should be looking for. This is instant speed rush of battle. no deck wants trumpet blast sadly lots of decks do want rush of battle so thats cool. this is a solid threat. B+. thanks to this card trumpet blast should Never see play in draft, which it already should be but some people never learn.
    Hewed Stone Retainers: Lsv you just dug a huge hole for yourselve. you support casting of scout the borders, wow. The idea of not to listen to pros comes to mind. This is still a C but I had to point out that I like your advice most of the time. and that comment just makes me want to punch you for making other players bad.
    Ugin’s construct: I have to point out that if this is your first creature you have no downside. also the morph clause they have no color. so yeah this is very solid. high B+.

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  19. I want to leave a comment on Temur Sabertooth. It can also be used to return your tricks to your hand that you manifested with etheral ambush or whatever. I think the Sabertooth is really quite crazy. It has so many possibilities. Even with cards like siege rhino, mardu heart piercer, bears companion and many others. It’s just really really versatile and I know I’d hate to sit staring at the business end of that.

    My 50c 🙂
    Nutty

  20. Pingback: » Fate Reforged Constructed Review – Red

  21. Pingback: » Fate Reforged Constructed Review – Green

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